Paul le Fou ([info]paul_le_fou) wrote,
@ 2008-09-27 00:10:00
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more like lolitics am I right?
So - anyone watch the debate? What'd you think?

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[info]perihelia
2008-09-27 04:15 am UTC (link)
um, john mccain came across as a little stronger than i had hoped he would. also, i thought it was a bit odd how obama swiftly maneuvered a question on russia, so that he could talk about our need for alternative energy sources and energy independence instead.

anyone else notice how obama frequently called mccain "john," while mccain always referred to obama as "senator obama?"

overall, i'm hoping that obama will come across as stronger on the domestic policy debates.

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-27 05:09 am UTC (link)
He certainly did come on strongly, but I'm not sure I mean it in the same way as you. He got emotional, and he looked angry and even annoyed almost the entire. A lot of reactions I've seen so far have been that he came across as "creepy" or some such.

The "Senator Obama" thing was another part of that - for much of the time when Obama was talking, McCain looked like he personally disliked Obama or was bothered by his presence/existence. He rarely if ever looked at or spoke directly to him, while Obama slid very easily into the more informal structure that Lehrer was pushing.

And yeah - foreign policy has always been McCain's "strong point," and Obama's weak spot - and for that, Obama held up pretty dang well. When we get to domestic policy and social issues and such, Obama's already much much stronger than McCain - barring any major gaffes it's up from here.

Although he is totally a democrat wuss. When will the left grow some damned balls and fight back? McCain was hammering away at Obama and he fired back maybe twice, and kept saying mccain was "absolutely right." There's already a McCain ad out focusing on that.

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[info]perihelia
2008-09-27 05:37 am UTC (link)
heh. honestly, i can't wait for the vice presidential debates. those should be some fun. :)

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-27 06:32 am UTC (link)
oh hell yes.

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[info]mullenkamp
2008-09-27 04:41 am UTC (link)
I was watching on CNN, and they had this little gauge at the bottom that showed realtime reaction from focus groups, labelled as Democrat, Republican, or Independent. I kept cracking up because every time McCain mentioned his running mate or said something like "And I've been there!" in a discussion of foreign affairs, all three lines instantly plummeted. :D

Was slightly distressed by how easily the Independent line went up whenever anyone said pretty much anything at all. Sheesh, yes, each candidate has pretty words, but don't you people know how to read between the lines? On the other hand, was pleased that all three lines generally stayed above the median when Obama was talking foreign policy, though the red Republican line tended to hover closely... and that frequently the red line was the only one above the median when McCain was talking foreign policy.

As for my own reaction, I'd been watching the news so closely recently (only thing I have to do at work, y'know) that I saw no surprises whatsoever, except for the parts where McCain specifically and repeatedly ignored Obama's clarification about "talks with no preconditions" not meaning "talks without any preparation, on the highest level, without any preliminary meetings at a lower level" and kept repeating that that was what Obama was asking for. Uhm, maybe his hearing's going? Or he thinks the American public's is?

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-27 05:14 am UTC (link)
Yeah, McCain stuck really strongly to his talking points, but then again Obama wasn't much better in that regard. He did hammer Obama pretty hard on certain issues, but whether or not the voters will buy it remains to be seen.

As for independents, these usually come down not to the issues, but to appearances. Like Al Gore's sigh. And an angry, annoyed mccain vs. a smooth, calm Obama is going to stick with some people. I've already heard several comparisons to Nixon vs. Kennedy, where the smooth young "upstart" was confident and in control and the old embattled veteran looked uncomfortable and irritable.

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[info]freyr
2008-09-27 05:28 am UTC (link)
I was yelling at Obama to bring up the fucking GI Bill after McCain's "I SUPPORT THE TROOPS" bullshit, but his missed the golden opportunity. Oh well.

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[info]freyr
2008-09-27 05:30 am UTC (link)
Oh, and the phrase (+ derivations) I'm taking shots on at each debate from here on out:

"What Senator Obama doesn't understand is..."

Seriously. I had no idea he understood so little until McCain told me!

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-27 06:31 am UTC (link)
"Spending." Over and over and over. Especially when we get into social issues.

Also, shots for "Senator McCain is absolutely right, but..." and McCain talking over Obama's protest of "that's not true-"

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-27 06:30 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I was like DO NOT LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THAT when he brought up veterans and how he supports them, but he totally let it go. There was a lot of that.

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[info]misshatter
2008-09-27 05:33 pm UTC (link)
It was good, but it wasn't as entertaining as the Bush/Kerry debates from 2004. I think there was too much legitimate debating and not enough bitching at each other. I demand entertainment!

I couldn't really tell who came off better in this one. I was disappointed at how together McCain seemed, but he still seemed creepy and yellow. When Obama smiled and laughed at McCain's stupid comments, he looked charming. I think Obama 'won', but I am worried that he didn't answer the economic questions directly enough and couldn't shoot down McCain on the experience front. I wish they could've brought up the fact that McCain's more liable to die in office, but that's probably too morbid for a debate >:).

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-27 06:27 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. I've heard a lot stressing that Obama has to keep it together - if he looks at all angry or even goes on the offensive, he suddenly becomes the angry black man berating an old white war hero on stage, and if that happens McCain could run the rest of his campaign stark naked and still win. He's got to tread a fine line, but he's doing admirably well so far.

Also, his answers were kind of weak (well, both of theirs were - they get asked a question, go off on a tangent to their previously prepared statements/comments, the other responds in turn, Lehrer says "feel like actually answering the question?" and both say "no, but let me tell you a few more ways my opponent will screw up the country...") but policy-wise this category for debate was McCain's strong point and Obama's weak point, and considering that I think Obama held his own really well.

And sadly, Obama can bring up the "72-year-old man with a history of recurring malignant cancer taking office with a disastrously inexperienced and awful vice president" no more than McCain can bring up "Barack HUSSEIN Obama is a secret Muslim!" Forget that it's true (the McCain one I mean) but it'd play as extremely un-classy which, above, he has to be extra-careful about or risk throwing everything away.

As for McCain, a large part of the post-debate narrative seems to be how angry or annoyed or bothered he seemed by Obama - he refused to look him in the eye or address him at any point, instead referring to him only as "senator Obama" - while Obama consistently watched and addressed him directly and called him John. When speaking, he kept it together pretty well by staying hard on the offensive, even talking over Obama at times. But even then, he would let his irritation show through many times.

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[info]chemothetherapy
2008-09-27 11:35 pm UTC (link)
I only saw the last half of the debate (was getting my new dog!). Naturally, I thought Obama was clearly more together, presidential, and sane. I just wonder whether the independents feel the same. Those "Senator Obama just doesn't understand..." sneers seem childish and creepy to us, but they might be convincing to some schmuck in Florida or, uh, Ohio.

I think in terms of debating policy Obama was the winner, but it might be even as far as winning votes goes.

But maybe I'm just a pessimist?

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[info]paul_le_fou
2008-09-28 05:57 am UTC (link)
Obama def. won on policy... but honestly, who thinks debates are about policy anymore? :/




but never mind the debate, what's this about a dog?!

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